“Engineers are becoming sorcerers” | The future of software development with OpenAI’s Sherwin Wu
Sherwin Wu leads engineering for OpenAI’s API platform, where roughly 95% of engineers use Codex, often working with fleets of 10 to 20 parallel AI agents.
We discuss:
- What OpenAI did to cut code review times from 10-15 minutes to 2-3 minutes
- How AI is changing the role of managers
- Why the productivity gap between AI power users and everyone else is widening
- Why “models will eat your scaffolding for breakfast”
- Why the next 12 to 24 months are a rare window where engineers can leap ahead before the role fully transforms
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Brought to you by:
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Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/engineers-are-becoming-sorcerers
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Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0
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Where to find Sherwin Wu:
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Where to find Lenny:
- Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
- X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction to Sherwin Wu
(03:10) AI’s role in coding at OpenAI
(06:53) The future of software engineering with AI
(12:26) The stress of managing agents
(15:07) Codex and code review automation
(19:29) The changing role of engineering managers
(24:14) The one-person billion-dollar startup
(31:40) Management lessons
(37:28) Challenges and best practices in AI deployment
(43:56) Hot takes on AI and customer feedback
(48:57) Building for future AI capabilities
(50:16) Where models are headed in the next 18 months
(53:35) Business process automation
(57:22) OpenAI’s ecosystem and platform strategy
(01:00:50) OpenAI’s mission and global impact
(01:05:21) Building on OpenAI’s API and tools
(01:08:16) Lightning round and final thoughts
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Referenced:
- Codex: https://openai.com/codex
- OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai
- OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai
- The creator of Clawd: “I ship code I don’t read”: https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/the-creator-of-clawd-i-ship-code
- The Sorcerer’s Apprentice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorcerer%27s_Apprentice_(Dukas)
- Quora: https://www.quora.com
- Marc Andreessen: The real AI boom hasn’t even started yet: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/marc-andreessen-the-real-ai-boom
- Sarah Friar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-friar
- Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama
- Nicolas Bustamante’s “LLMs Eat Scaffolding for Breakfast” post on X: https://x.com/nicbstme/status/2015795605524901957
- The Bitter Lesson: http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html
- Overton window: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
- Developers can now submit apps to ChatGPT: https://openai.com/index/developers-can-now-submit-apps-to-chatgpt
- Responses: https://platform.openai.com/docs/api-reference/responses
- Agents SDK: https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/agents-sdk
- AgentKit: https://openai.com/index/introducing-agentkit
- Ubiquiti: https://ui.com
- Jujutsu Kaisen on Crunchyroll: https://www.crunchyroll.com/series/GRDV0019R/jujutsu-kaisen?srsltid=AfmBOoqvfzKQ6SZOgzyJwNQ43eceaJTQA2nUxTQfjA1Ko4OxlpUoBNRB
- eero: https://eero.com
- Opendoor: https://www.opendoor.com
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Recommended books:
- Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs: https://www.amazon.com/Structure-Interpretation-Computer-Programs-Engin
