#880: Relationship Tools That Work — Esther Perel, Brené Brown, Dr. Sue Johnson, Terry Real, and More on Conflict, Repair, and Lasting Love
Hosted by
Tim Ferriss
This episode is devoted to one deceptively simple question: How do you stay close to your partner over time through the inevitable exhaustion, misunderstanding, conflict, disappointment, and change?
This episode is brought to you by:
- Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 with dual-zone temperature control, so each partner sleeps at their perfect temperature
In this episode:
- Esther Perel begins with the basics: appreciation, affection, and replacing chronic complaints with clear requests.
- Brené Brown explains why marriage is never 50/50 and how she and her husband create what Brené calls a “plan of kindness.”
- Brad Feld describes the monthly “life dinners” that have helped him and his wife review the previous 30 days, talk honestly about the future, and prevent resentments from building up
- Jim Dethmer offers a practical way to distinguish observable facts from the stories we make up about our partners.
- Sheila Heen explains how humor and genuine curiosity can serve as an interrupt on an argument that is heating up
- The late Dr. Sue Johnson then walks us through a “Hold Me Tight” conversation—a way of moving beneath anger and defensiveness to the fear, vulnerability, and need for connection underneath.
- Terry Real then offers a strikingly simple model for repair and introduces the term “normal marital hatred” - as he put it, nobody ever goes up to him and says “What do you mean by that?!”
- Finally, Diana Chapman describes what it means to let an outdated version of a marriage end so that two people can consciously choose what comes next for their relationship.
Timestamps:
Intro from Tim: 00:00:00
Esther Perel: 00:01:58
Brené Brown: 00:08:21
Brad Feld: 00:12:02
Jim Dethmer: 00:16:51
Shelia Heen: 00:23:04
Dr. Sue Johnson: 00:29:26
Terry Real: 00:40:14
Diana Chapman: 00:46:19
Short bios:
- Esther Perel is an internationally renowned psychotherapist, the New York Times bestselling author of Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs, and the host of the award-winning podcast Where Should We Begin?
- Brené Brown is the author of six number-one New York Times bestsellers exploring courage, vulnerability, shame, and resilience; a research professor at the University of Houston; and a professor of practice at the University of Texas at Austin.
- Brad Feld is an early-stage investor and entrepreneur and a co-founder of Foundry Group, Mobius Venture Capital, and Techstars. He writes on entrepreneurship, leadership, mental health, and sustaining a life beyond work.
- Jim Dethmer is a co-founder of the Conscious Leadership Group and co-author of The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership, an influential framework for building candid, responsible, high-trust relationships.
- Sheila Heen is the deputy director of the Harvard Negotiation Project, founder of Triad Consulting Group, and co-author of the New York Times bestsellers Difficult Conversations and Thanks for the Feedback.
- Dr. Sue Johnson was the pioneering clinical psychologist who created Emotionally Focused Therapy. She was named Psychologist of the Year by the American Psychological Association and appointed to the Order of Canada for her global impact on psychotherapy.
- Terry Real is an internationally recognized family therapist, a bestselling author, and the creator of Relational Life Therapy. He has spent more than four decades helping couples restore intimacy and connection.
- Diana Chapman is co-author of The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership, a cofounder of the Conscious Leadership Group, and founder of the Signal Institute, working with leaders on radical honesty, somatic intelligence, and transformation.
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